Quadframe Foldable Pro SIXcopter - medium lift need

[Mactadpole]

Well I've decided to move up to the world of 6s, I think. Would like advise from the community since I have been an old school 4s battery and 2814 style motor guy for a long time. Just delivered my last decent lifter in that format to an organization in Ecuador to map their forest reserve (more on that soon) and need to build something new.

Below is my current parts list and specs. I have input all this into eCalc and it looks like I can get close to 20 minutes flying time (see below), which beats my typical 12 minutes of flight on the old school setup.

I would really appreciate your thoughts and suggestions before I start the ordering process. I should mention I was considering the Tarot T810 frame but in the end chose the quadframe because it is a bit lighter and I think I can make it even lighter by using aluminum hardware instead of the steel.

Please share your thoughts! Thanks.

1 - Quadframe FOLDABLE PRO SIXcopter frame with 25mm tubes and 400mm arms for up to 15" ($284.00, 946g, hope to remove up to 150g by using aluminum hardware instead of steel)
3 - Quadframe Light Leg set for 25mm arm with 16x315mm leg (~$24.00, 61g each)
1 - Quadframe controller mount plate ($12.75, 60g)
1 - Quadframe GPS support plate ($12.75, 40g)
1 - Quadframe Lipo battery tray ($18.75, 60g)
6 - SUNNYSKY X4110S 340KV ($43.25, 148g each)
6 - ZTW Spider Series 40A OPTO Multicopter ESC w/SimonK ($18.99, 33g each) I have read that there are issues using SimonK with low KV motors so I have decided to use the
Hobbywing Xrotor 40A Brushelss Opto ESC for multicopter ($14.99, 26g each)
2 - Multistar High Capacity 6S 8000mAh ($81.23, 956g each)
1- Quadframe V2 Medium size BLDC gimbal with motors ($449.00, ~700g with dampening system and controller)
1- Quadframe Gimbal dampening system V3 ($79.95, 180g - included in above weight)
3 sets - Gemfan T-Type CF Propeller - 15 x 5.5 ($17.89, 40g set)
1 - Pixhawk FC ($279.98, 70g with gps, etc.)
1 - Sony nex5t w/16-50 lens (376g)

AUW from list above is 5553g. I have it at 5807g in eCalc because I know it will weigh more once I include the wiring harness, etc. I will hopefully cut some weight with the mentioned hardware changes, and creative wiring like mounting the esc's under the motors and therefore eliminating one power wire going to frame center and eliminating all bullet connectors.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Shawn

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[Mactadpole]

Well, since I didn't get any responses I went ahead an began pulling the trigger on purchases for the build. Two things have changed: 1. After reading about people having issues with SimonK firmware and low KV motors I have changed the ESC's to the Hobbywing Xrotor 40A opto. It shows they have been tested with the motor I am using and don't have sync issues. 2. I have decided to go with some folding landing gear from FoxtechFPV: http://www.foxtechfpv.com/mantis-foldable-landing-gear-2pcs-p-1180.html. This will also allow me to set it up in X-mode.

Here is a new eCalc screenshot based on some updated weights and more correct battery parameters.

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[Mactadpole]

Just wanted to provide an update to the build now that everything has arrived and I've started. First impressions of the frame are great. I put it together and it seems super stiff and functional as a folding hexa. I also wanted to see if I could fit 16" props if needed and it will. My only complaint is that I wish everything that is G10 was CF! I bet a couple hundred grams could be save and I would be willing to pay a few extra $100 if that's all it added to the cost. Otherwise I am super happy with the purchase of this frame.

I decided to go with the DYS power distribution board. It's rated at a 100A and has a 5V and adjustable 10-20V regulator. My eCalc says 100A max at full throttle so I may be risking it a little bit, plan to do plenty of testing initially before settling permanently. It will be interesting to see how clean the power from it's reg's are too. I am using a dual battery setup with two leads soldered directly to the board. One has the Frsky Smart port 150A sensor and the Frsky Smartport Lipo Voltage sensor, and the other has the DYI Attopilot power module to go to the Pixhawk. I will provide a lead from the 5V regulator on the PDB with a common ground to the Attopilot for powering the Pixhawk. This setup will provide two monitoring sources and I can use the Frsky sensors for calibrating the Pixhawk numbers to reflect volts and amps for both batteries. Everything is soldered directly, no bullets on this one.

I also decided to mount the esc's at the end of the arms. I know many think this may be a bad idea but I did go slightly large on the esc's to hopefully avoid any issues. This will be flown in hot temps and high humidity environments so I wanted to maximize my cooling. We'll see.

More soon.

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[Mactadpole]

Made a lot of progress over the past two days. Basically finished the build.Really happy with this frame and the whole build so far. Came in at 4.85 kg fully loaded (with batts) except gimbal and camera, so I should be right at what I used in eCalc. It's all calibrated and just balancing props now. Hope to maiden soon.

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[hjls3]

used quadframe landing gear for a small custom for fun quad - i was super impressed with quality and service. was thinkning about trying a frame - you liking it? did you do anything special when you extended ESC wires to end of arm? cheers and thanks - nice looking bird.

 

[Mactadpole]

I too have been really impressed by quality and service. I love the frame layout, super simple with minimal bits and pieces. Like I said in a previous post, I just wish the g10 pieces were cf to lose some more grams. I also wish I could have found aluminum hardware but no luck finding screws long enough. I did find some titanium but prohibitively expensive in high minimum pieces order. With cf and aluminum hardware I think 500 grams or more could be dropped.

I decided to not add additional capacitors to ESC's placed at the arm ends because I just don't feel like it is necessary based on previous experiences. Back in the beginning days I ran pretty long arms and would put ESC's at the ends and it was never an issue. Of course that was with 3s and 4s batteries. What I did was step up 10A on ESC's minimum and my wires are as short as possible with no bullets or other connectors anywhere. Also, the arms are only 400mm.

I will be watching ESC's closely during test flights but I think all will be good.

 

[Gary Seven]

Hello @Mactadpole. Question: What is that device you have clamped around one of the two positive power leads?

 

[eskil23]

Hello @Mactadpole. Question: What is that device you have clamped around one of the two positive power leads?

Looks like an inductive ampmeter to me.
@Mactadpole: What's the point of measuring the current from one battery and the voltage of the other?

 

[Gary Seven]

Looks like an inductive ampmeter to me.
@Mactadpole: What's the point of measuring the current from one battery and the voltage of the other?

Ok, then I'm NOT losing my mind. I've never seen this, does it work? Looks a little bulky to me.

 

[AustinFPV]

Nice build. I'm working on something very similar but a more budget quadrotor. Same motors, 6S. Wish I had found those ESCs before I ordered the Platinum 30s but they should be fine too. Did you add extra caps to the ESCs on the arms?

Is there any concern with the packs atop the Pixhawk? I'll be doing the same but am considering making a "radar arch" to position the GPS directly centered above my single 6S8000.

What are your plans for gimbal control?

 

[Mactadpole]

Ok, then I'm NOT losing my mind. I've never seen this, does it work? Looks a little bulky to me.

That is the Frsky 150A telemetry sensor and the voltage sensor. Together they only weigh 28grams. It is way more accurate than the 3dr or my diy attopilot power modules. I have it set up so that I can monitor amps and voltage on one battery directly on Taranis transmitter and monitor the other battery on Mission Planner/DroidPlanner. It's redundant but I have had problems with getting power modules to the Pixhawk calibrated well, readings are always a little off. The Frsky sensors are dead on. This way I know if I am having an issue with either battery.

 

[Mactadpole]

Nice build. I'm working on something very similar but a more budget quadrotor. Same motors, 6S. Wish I had found those ESCs before I ordered the Platinum 30s but they should be fine too. Did you add extra caps to the ESCs on the arms?

Is there any concern with the packs atop the Pixhawk? I'll be doing the same but am considering making a "radar arch" to position the GPS directly centered above my single 6S8000.

What are your plans for gimbal control?

Did not add extra caps, see my post # 6 for explanation.

I haven't ever used a setup with batteries on top and haven't done a flight yet. I will be doing a compassmot first to check for issues. I got 10 sats in the house with motors running without props no problem.

I have a Centerpiece Gimbal controller but haven't touched the gimbal stuff yet. I'm going to strap some weight to the vib damper plate to simulate gimbal and camera for the first couple of flights.

 

[Gary Seven]

That is the Frsky 150A telemetry sensor and the voltage sensor. Together they only weigh 28grams. It is way more accurate than the 3dr or my diy attopilot power modules. I have it set up so that I can monitor amps and voltage on one battery directly on Taranis transmitter and monitor the other battery on Mission Planner/DroidPlanner. It's redundant but I have had problems with getting power modules to the Pixhawk calibrated well, readings are always a little off. The Frsky sensors are dead on. This way I know if I am having an issue with either battery.

Oh, ok then. So it works like @eskil23 says, by induction?

 

[Mactadpole]

Yes. It works great. I have tested them against a Watt's up meter plugged into same battery.

 

[Mactadpole]

Build Update:

Finally time to squeeze in a maiden flight before the cold front. It flew incredibly stable with stock PID's and it was right at middle throttle with mock weight for gimbal and camera. Hovered at 32A which is about 6A lower than what eCalc estimated, wonderful! Altitude hold and GPS hold was perfect.

Next step will be tidying some things up and getting it tuned.

 

[Mactadpole]

Had an excellent day flying and tuning. Ok, so it only made it to 63°F.

I added 989g to simulate gimbal, camera, controller, etc. weight. It still hovered at right around center stick and around 34A with AUW of 5.85 kg. Right at eCalc estimate. I'll tell you what was most impressive. First flight I did an autotune and then just hovered around. I flew it for 25 minutes and took it down to 21.5V on the two 6S 8000mah multistars. BLEW my expectations. The autotune had it overtuned, I think because of the wind (it picked up today) and I find that autotune has this habit the heavier the copter gets. I flew a second flight and ran the autotune again, landed and accepted the PID values, and then flew again while manually tweaking the PID's. This time I flew 27 minutes and landed at 21.5V again! I should mention that everything barely changed temperature.

These times are excellent and I couldn't be happier. Looking forward to get the gimbal on and starting some missions. Going to be able to cover a lot of territory with this copter! By far one of my best builds yet.

Will try out the 16" props soon to see what happens.

Pic with water bottle for weight. Nothing exciting really. Except those flight times!!!

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[hjls3]

really sweet! super clean. did you do anything due to lengthening ESC wire? impressive flight time. congrats.

 

[Mactadpole]

really sweet! super clean. did you do anything due to lengthening ESC wire? impressive flight time. congrats.

Did nothing other than keeping the wires as short as possible with no bullets. Interesting how many folks have asked about this. See post #6 for my explanation.

 

[hjls3]

Did nothing other than keeping the wires as short as possible with no bullets. Interesting how many folks have asked about this. See post #6 for my explanation.

sorry Mactadpole - it was actually me that asked earlier - again, sorry - i always ask when i see that setup and I am now thinking like you - no capacitors needed. none the less...beautiful bird and looking forward to seeing it all done up with gimbal and such.

 

[Mactadpole]

Been working on getting the gimbal installed and balanced. I added some nylon bolts and washers through the rubber dampers so I could adjust the stiffness since the CP Gimbal controller likes a stiffer mount. Managed to run an autotune on the CP controller and it seems to have done well except I get some buzzing at extreme tilt positions when moving it manually. I lowered P dampening and it helped a little.

I did some clean up of wiring and positioning of rx antenna's, etc. I moved and changed the GPS/compass module with a new Ublox neo-m8n and I just got 18 satellites in the backyard with PDOP of 0.6. Super impressive!

Just about ready for some mapping work.

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